Almost everything is becoming WoW player-friendly. I know a lot of us were hoping the artists and the designers could ignore their previous work and think up new ideas, but so far that does not seem to be the case.

From the talent trees all the way to UI design, everything's recycled from WoW but in Sanctuary.

Will I play it? Yes, and that's the freaking problem.

Instead of deleting this thread for giving me a headache, I'll ask a question.

Should something be different for the sake of being different?

The point of that question is, I will provide you with logical and rational reasoning all day long for why certain choices were made to change game mechanics and systems, but if all I hear in return is "WoW had it" then you don't have an argument. Your voice is lost on me. It's lost in, what I assume is an attempt to influence the direction of the game. It isn't a valid reason for anything, no matter how much you may want it to be.

Should something be different for the sake of being different?

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Q u o t e:
I think while pointing out specifics can give folks at Blizzard situational examples of where these complaints stem from, using them as a sole source of ire may weaken the argument (as can be seen with many refuting posts about significant examples).. So I'd like to throw my pennies in with the WoW Crowd and perhaps offer another view point.


I agree, many ideas were taken from D2, evolved and placed in WoW. I also agree that taking ideas from WoW, evolving them, and placing them in D3 isn't a bad idea. ...So long as they're sufficiently evolved to be new spins on old ideas instead of old ideas ripped from one page and pasted into another. If WoW and D3 weren't both Blizzard constructs, Blizzard would sue the makers of D3 for ripping off WoW. ;) And that is the current problem.


When ideas were taken from D2 and put to practice in WoW the result felt and looked dramatically different, even if the underlying ideas remained. I'm an avid Blizz fan and have played all but their SNES titles. I played D2 and WoW without reading about art design or complaints of any sort and never once felt like I was playing a recycled D2 when I got into WoW. They blended old ideas into new constructs very well.

Ire is not stemming from the use of ides but from the abuse of them. D3's current construct looks so similar to WoW you want to type /joke and see if your barbarian will say "Work, work, work." Without going into specifics it feels so much like WoW it seems, well, cheapened.

The problem is not in the spreading and diluting of ideas. Its in the fact that there is a definite and dramatic separation of the feel one gets from Diablo and the feel one gets from WoW, and the folks at Blizzard are not successfully making that separation or leap from WoW to D3. That's where the ire comes in, I think. They speak of "Not feeling like Diablo" in Blizzcast. I think what people want is for them to be more frugal and strict with that feeling. They may even have to be harsh on WoW to do it.
The point of ire does not need to be a topic for angry argument. Its just a certain population of D3 fans conveying (hopefully in a nice way) their feelings on the current feel of D3 and how they'd like to see it change. We know this is important to Blizzard. To say that pleasing fans isn't on their list of desires is silly, as we create their income.

So, bottom line is people don't want to feel like too many elements of D3 were ..plagiarized, if you will, from WoW. (I know, weak as Blizz owns WoW, but you get the idea..)


For specifics (Which tends to draw debate) . Look at the screenshot with the Thousand Pounder in it that was put up with Blizzcast 8. The gargoyles on the stair case...If you look at older screen shots of the gargoyles (I THINK..) they were changed from these lame, cartoony lion-gryphon things to these ghoulish head pieces. That's a direct wish from a poster (me)..that I think was listened to (if indeed it was changed and I'm not unclear in my memory)..

The skill tree definitely looks like acopy and paste from WoW. ..While admittedly D2 had the exact same sort of set up, it felt significantly different from D2 to WoW that I, at least, didn't go, "Hey they ripped off d2!"

The purple rugs really bother me, the style of the tables, and the candles. It makes me feel like I'm walking in the undercity. The lack of hacked corpses (so prevalent in the first two) and random piles of skulls and such bothers me...But these things may be finishing touches added later on. The lack of pentagrams and such. All specifics that added to the flavor and created the sheer and palpable rift between WoW and D2 are missing, and I think these FEELINGS are important and what need to be conveyed.

Use IDEAS from WoW, not art. We are visual creatures, all mammals are. If you're using familiar color schemes it's going to scream to our psyche (This is WoW!) more so than stylism will. I know the artists have their favorite palette, but sometimes you have to step outside of whats comfortable to make something truly new and wonderful...And in the process discover a little something about yourself.

Scrap your WoW color palettes. Forbid use of them. Make new ones rife with reds, shadows, browns, faded whites, and barbarism. Make it feel like a different game, like a D3. Not a DiWoWblo.

That, I think, is what people want..

Sorry for the wall of text...I hope Bashiok reads and reports this stuff, though as I only write it in the hopes of getting mine (And others' ) desires for change communicated to those who hold our D3 enjoyment in their hands. ;)

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Put as well as you could have I suspect. You sort of fell apart there at the end though in my opinion.

Also, to be fair no one has seen anything beyond one dungeon. If you don't like the art style, fair enough, but it's not changing. To help you from being crushed under the weight of that revelation, just hold out and wait until you see more of the game before condemning the whole lot.

I'll say this, at BlizzCon I tried to spend as much time around the playable DIII area to listen to or ask of people's reactions. Almost everyone I spoke to I asked "What did you think?" and almost everyone replied "It feels like Diablo" (usually after an "OH MY GOD" or "I want to play more") now if that isn't saying something, that all these small parts changing don't actually alter the overall feel, then I don't know what does. It's easy to assume they do, and hell maybe they could if gone unchecked, but we're extremely aware of what makes Diablo feel like Diablo. I think a lot of players do too, but those feelings right now I think are misplaced in areas where... ehhhh, they're not actually core mechanics and design that REALLY make Diablo what it is. They made Diablo II, sure, but we're not making Diablo II.
We're making Diablo III.

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Q u o t e:


Its not just about being different, u guys just give some thing in wow too much credit.Once I hear "wow is a terrible game" from one of the devs, then we can talk about being objective.

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Please refrain from posting again.

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Q u o t e:
But take a look at everything all at once from my point of view. I'll try to be as accurate at possible, from start to finish.

I played WoW and D2, aside from lich king expansion.

Granted the Art style is irvine-ish which is not bad just not as realistic a feeling anyone was expecting for diablo. Then came all the copy and cut things from WoW. For example the guys that summon the fat mini-boss are in fact undead in robes from WoW. Then there was the gargoyle incident. Then there was the petition incident which had a lot of good points. Now there is rage for the barbarian, which makes no sense at all because this is not even a mmo. I see a lot of skills that puts limitations on the characters of sanctuary which is not a good thing. For example the wizards destruction ray I think its called (the red beam) And in the wizards talents you can only use this if your at 100% mana I think it was or something or other? Again I'll say this is not an mmo. They were not going to let bodies stay around, not even blood... until someone actually mentioned that which well frankly I can't fathom that they forgot it considering its diablo but I guess that for fixed at least. Then comes the skilltrees that are quite frankly direct copy and pastes from WoW. Glow on weapons in trailer, copy and paste. The first U.I Was copy and paste. Hm what else... I guess they at least tried purple items as uniques but even they realized that was too much I guess lol. So you take all that into consideration from someone that has not playing the game and looks at graphics that are frankly wowish because yes its irvine. And well, it kinda starts looking like WoW if you know what i'm saying. They fix stuff sure but the more WoW things that are released the more headaches your probably going to get man.

PS: If I played the D3 demo I would have soiled myself too. Anyone would have.

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Ok... I'm like 90% sure you're trolling now.

So far I found it's best to ignore people that have no idea what they're talking about. Convincing them of anything otherwise takes too much energy for too little pay off. In the end they'll still be instantly swayed by the next thing they read.

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Q u o t e:
(when the previous talent trees weren't broken..at all)

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WHAT!?

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Q u o t e:
a crappy skill there never going to use

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You've located the problem.

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Q u o t e:
oh yeah lol. That's what it was, no wonder I was angry about it. Now that is one useless skill. In fast paced diablo how is that going to be good. ( i think i mixed it up with disintegrate cuz thats what build i was guna go so it pissed me off lol )

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Well it's good for a powerful opening attack obviously, but potentially coupled with a skill that causes mana orbs to drop, and potentially a skill that increases the amount of mana orbs that drop, potentially items/affixes that help regen mana... it could be pretty amazing.

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Q u o t e:
*sheepishly..

Ok Bashiok. You can lock this one now...ahem..

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I think that's a good idea, it's a little too muddled for it's own good at this point. Replying to it in the first place was a mistake. I apologize.

But I'll end it on this note...

When I started at Blizzard I could only dream that someone somewhere in the company was even working on a Diablo III, let alone be as close to the project as I am now. We're all here because we're excited about the game. You're all here because you share in that excitement. We all want to be a part of it. Whether that means you're here to just talk about it, point out what you don't like, be an unabashed fanboy, or maybe just lurk and read, we're all here because we love the series, and we want to play a sequel that appeals to us. We all have our own ideas and opinions, but we all need to be open to discussion and celebration of the game.

Let's all just keep that in mind as we're replying to each other.

Otherwise, I'm more than happy to read your thoughts and opinions and relay what I can. Hang out here and chat about the game, etc. I only ask that you approach everything with a rational sense of curiosity and desire to learn more.